[Official] Respec Proposal

Discussion in 'Time Clickers' started by Proton, Oct 16, 2015.

  1. Proton

    Proton Administrator
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    Step 1 - Click 'Time Warp'
    [​IMG]

    Step 2 - Some new text on the confirmation screen. Click 'Yes'.
    [​IMG]

    Step 3 - Respec Artifacts
    You can buy/sell any artifacts you want before the new Timeline starts.
    Press 'Sell' and all values displayed will change to show how many :timecube: you will receive for selling.
    Press 'Weapon Augments' to go to a similar screen where you can Respec your Weapon Augments.
    Press 'Start Timeline' when you are done. All the changes you made will take effect for your new Timeline.
    [​IMG]

    FAQ
    Why is Respec needed?

    Accidental purchases, trying out different builds, not getting locked into one style of play, more freedom to experiment when balance changes are made.
    Also incompatibility between multiple platforms are creating bad experiences for many players. Any changes we make take at least 7 days to show up on iOS, and we can't submit a new build while waiting for that 7 days or it will reset the 7 day timer.

    Why not allow buying & selling all the time?

    The most effective strategy would be to put all your :timecube: into Start Gold before Warping, then to take them all out and put them into other places after spending all the gold.

    When will this update be released?
    Best case scenario if we focus all our resources towards it would be 1 week (2 weeks for iOS).

    Can you sell all of an Artifact or Augment that is a dependency of another one?
    No, in that case you will need a minimum of 1 level, or sell all upgrades that are dependent on it.

    What if I don't want to change anything?
    Just press 'Start Timeline'

    Will I lose :timecube: or :weaponcube: if I sell?
    No. The sell price is 100% of the buy price. You will not lose anything.

    Can I buy and sell multiple levels at the same time?
    Not at this time, it's a feature we could look at adding in the future.

    Can I store builds so I can more easily swap between them?
    Not at this time, it's a feature we could look at adding in the future.

    Can I cancel and undo any changes I made?
    Not at this time, this could be handled by having multiple Build Slots in the future.

    What do you think of this idea? What other questions or ideas do you have? Do you want it?
     
    #1 Proton, Oct 16, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2015
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  2. re11ding

    re11ding Rookie

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    Would redo still be an option here? Because from what I can see, you may not get all the time cubes you would if you sold an artifact that you originally spent on it, meaning you could lose some time cubes as opposed to redoing and getting all your time cubes but also have to rebuy everything. If there's even a chance that I'd lose any time cubes that I originally spent by buying after selling, I'd just redo. I'd never use the sell feature.
     
  3. WhatIsScript

    WhatIsScript Spec Ops

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    Yes I think this is a great idea to do!
    I would also like to suggest toggling some of the gold particles because with the new OP mode, they tend to be all over your screen and cause lag even when I have settings turn down. Now this probably won't happen depending on what type of computer you have and what you got running.
     
  4. Proton

    Proton Administrator
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    I think the only purpose of Redo after this update would be if you get stuck (higher Start Wave than Start Gold).

    Selling gives you back 100% of what you originally bought for (or whatever the new price is after balance changes).
     
  5. Kenzie

    Kenzie Administrator
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    You get full value back when selling an Artifact or Augment, so you wouldn't lose any cubes with the new respec feature.
     
  6. balthur

    balthur Spec Ops

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    I like this proposal.
    Buying/Sellig would be a lot easier than a complete redo, you can play around with builds and we can undo mistakes on the artifacts and weapon augments.

    You might want to spellcheck to the step 2 message: 'You will also have the opportunity to Respec your Artirfacts and Weapon Augments'
     
  7. Gamefreak

    Gamefreak Elite

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    Yay :weaponcube: respec!
    I am afraid of upgrading click cannon's cone of fire because I think it would slow down mid-to-late progression with non-stop maxdamage. Now I will be able to test it and revert back if necessary.
    :timecube: respec is also very useful if you have huge amount of cubes. Leveling back hundreds of levels in the damage tree after full redo is no joke.
     
  8. Humerez

    Humerez Spec Ops

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    Nice idea as usual
     
  9. nize

    nize Rookie

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    A very welcome update.
     
  10. Bubole40

    Bubole40 Spec Ops

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    I would not want that. In my opinion that just makes people click happy. The way things are now, spending a big amount of:timecube: or:weaponcube: carries some weight. Players have doubts - is this a good build? Do I go DPS or gold earn? Am I making a mistake?! This makes the community active. You can ask questions and learn from the experience of the ones that came before you.
    This is not an MMO or MOBA. Maybe there is a ''best way" to go, but this is just not a game you play to win. There are many ways to get to the top. If there even is a top. You have a Redo option, that was good enough for quite a while. As for :weaponcube: redo - by the time people get to having spent enough :weaponcube: to even think about a redo, they should have enough experience to know where to spend their :weaponcube: in the first place.

    In another line of thought. The developers of this game are great. They listen to feedback, take proposals and all. But doing this update is just giving in, in my opinion. They should think about if they want people to play this game the way that ProtonStudio intended, or the way that the mass of people think it should be played. :)


    //Dang, this is a very old topic.... I just saw the link in the chat tonight, and since the whole redo topic had come up recently, I thought that it was a new discussion. Anyway, that's my 2 cents. :)
     
    #10 Bubole40, Oct 16, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2015
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  11. Proton

    Proton Administrator
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    This is a new topic (just created today) :)

    There are some things that are lost:
    • Click Cannon will be unlocked too early
    • Decisions will have less weight behind them
    • Possible to progress in unusual ways that may break balance (not sure if this is true yet)
    However, there are many things that are gained. This actually fits in some interesting pieces that were missing. Like when you Time Warp now, the screen flashes black then starts back. With this new method, we envision a wormhole in the background as you are Time Warping & Respecing, adding to the feel of the game. We wanted some effect like that, but couldn't justify slowing people down just to watch a Time Warp animation.

    I notice the way Kenzie & I play (and a lot of other people), you Time Warp, then spend a little time while spending your Time Cubes, then actually start playing. One big problem with this is if you put any Time Cubes into Start Gold or Start Wave, they don't take effect until the next time you Time Warp (seems a bit odd).

    We're pretty excited to try the Respec gameplay out. It's been something on our minds, but we haven't had the time to actually research the issue more until after the 1.3 update was out.
     
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  12. TheUrb

    TheUrb Spec Ops

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    That is some this I have always found odd. You buy an artifact and it does not take effect until next run. I like that idea that what I buy will be available on the run I am getting ready to start. I also think being able to sell back artifacts will take the game in an interesting direction. It would be be fun to play with.
     
  13. SinRopa

    SinRopa Advanced

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    It would be nice to have some import / export JSON or strings in general.

    Specifically, save games for the websites to analyze builds, but in this case rather than storing build slots you could allow export / import as a fast solution.

    I imagine a string of artifacts to buy and the script would attempt to buy as many as it could afford, otherwise include a cost record and check that before it begins. I like the affordable concept, because you could keep importing a well designed build until you can afford it and get back into the game

    It would be nice if a player could dump their savegame into my page, tweak their build and then share with others to import.
     
  14. smx

    smx Spec Ops

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    I don't believe I can fully articulate how awesome of an idea this is.

    As for the Starting Gold situation Proton mentioned, I usually just re-TimeWarp as soon as I clear my first boss wave if I've added to Starting Gold. So, not a huge issue. But still—as you put it—a bit odd.
     
  15. Stowaway

    Stowaway Rookie

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    I did a "redo" twice after 1.3 came out, and thought seriously about doing a third. Just because I wanted to try things. But respending millions of cubes is definitely frustrating, and prevented me from doing as much tweaking as I wanted.

    This change would be a huge boon for build experimentation. But I half agree with Bubole40 that it might make things too easy. During my redoes, all I really wanted was an option to hold down *shift* to buy ten, or *control* to buy one hundred (to use Clicker Heroes examples). It never occurred to me that it might be as easy as unspending spent points. I don't know. Do it the way you want; I trust you.

    I will say that I love how active the development is in this game. I think it's hands-down the best idle game out there, and I think more people will be recognizing this soon!
     
  16. Mole2704

    Mole2704 Spec Ops

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    Fully support his idea Proton. I've often thought about doing a "redo" but then realise how much work it is to get everything back.
     
  17. Dimps

    Dimps Elite

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    I time warp, buy all upgrades and weapons I can, click 7{space}0, then start staring into spending time cubes screen.

    Overall, this doesn't make much difference to me. It's a convenient way to do some respec. Cool, why not.
    At higher level of play/grind, there is not usually an upgrade you could buy after a warp. Force showing :timecube: screen in that case would be kind of trolling.
     
  18. Dimps

    Dimps Elite

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    It is already in there. Go to options, export progress.
    It's not JSON, but it's easy to reverse-engineer if you have some spare time. Devs could as well post their parsing code if they are so kind to you :)
     
  19. SinRopa

    SinRopa Advanced

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    They wouldn't encode the save... if they wanted it to be readable. This would allow anyone to edit a save as encoded saves (not JSON) are loadable. In fact, if it were me... I would scramble the encoding every patch to break game-save edit sites, but I digress.

    While yes, I could write code to remove it, a string provided by the client would be useful for all future content and less likely to break when data storage is changed to support new features.

    More importantly, a standard output would allow more community built tools made by people who cannot handle the crypto.
     
  20. Kenzie

    Kenzie Administrator
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    Just started testing the new Respec feature. I'm sure these may be tweaked a bit more as we test, but here's the Time Cube & Weapon Cube screens you'll see when you Time Warp. You can buy Artifacts & Augments by left-clicking, right-click to sell. Holding down the button increases the speed that Artifacts & Augments are bought so you can quickly buy and sell multiple levels. You'll still be able to Buy Artifacts & Augments using the screens that currently exist in-game, you just won't be able to sell through there.

    If all goes as planned we should be releasing this update on Friday October 23!
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]